Chicago, Chicago
OHMME’s Sima Cunningham talks about her super-connected local music scene, the benefits of signing with a supportive independent label, and the profound impact of Bob Boilen’s Tiny Desk Concerts
Multi-instrumentalist and vocalist, Sima Cunningham, is a fixture on the Chicago music scene. She founded her band, OHMME, with fellow Chicago native, Macie Stewart—also a singer and multi-instrumentalist—in 2014, and they were soon playing local mega-events like the 2016 Pitchfork Festival, and opening for Tortoise at Millennium Park. Cunningham has also toured, performed, and recorded with a who’s who of important Chicagoans, including, Jeff Tweedy (Wilco), Chance the Rapper, Twin Peaks, and many others. Her other contributions to the local scene include managing Fox Hall Studio—which also functions as the Chicago band house for artists passing through town—and running the Postock Festival in nearby southern Wisconsin.
“There is so much music and camaraderie, and we also have really good independent music venues,” Cunningham says. “In Chicago, if you go to a show at one of 10 venues, you are going to run into a bunch of people from the music scene. You can imagine, this quarantine thing is hard—we are used to wandering over to our regular watering holes to catch each other’s shows—that’s where we see each other and congregate, so it’s been hard. A lot of friends who are touring musicians, if they’re not on the road, they’re probably working at a venue, and that’s definitely come to a grinding halt.”
I spoke with Cunningham about the perks of being a part of a thriving local scene, the benefits of signing with a supportive record label, the reasons indie bands have to tour and aggressively sell merchandize at gigs, and a behind-the-scenes look at what really happens at NPR’s Tiny Desk Concerts.
Are you from Chicago?
I am born and raised in Chicago. I lived in New York for a couple of years, but I moved back here about seven years ago after I finished college. I have been pretty active in the music scene, and play in a lot of bands. I come from a family of musicians and creative folks. We have a recording studio, and my partner, Dorian Gehring, is an engineer. I helped open a couple of music venues, too, so I definitely have been involved in a lot of pieces of the Chicago music scene. OHMME has been cooking for almost six years now. It started as a side project for both myself and Macie, but we quickly got that wind beneath our wings. A lot of people were really excited about it, and it felt like it was a project that was really worthwhile pursuing. We really started pushing for it in 2016—mid-2016 is when we started adding drums—and stepping up our level of commitment to the band.
Is your drummer Matt Carroll?
Since 2016. He played in another band with Macie and my bother Liam Kazar, called Marrow. They are a really awesome band, though not very active anymore. They are still sitting on an incredible record that I hope comes out soon. We knew Matt and he was very familiar with OHMME’s music. We had a couple of big outdoor festival gigs—we got added onto Pitchfork last minute after someone dropped out—and we were also opening for Tortoise at Millennium Park, which is this huge stage and usually about 5,000 to 10,000 people come out for it. Matt is an intuitive drummer. He loves singers and vocalists, and he’s jazz-trained but has been playing in the indie rock world, so we felt he was the perfect addition. He lives in Copenhagen now—his wife is Danish and they just had a baby—but we definitely get him over whenever we can.
You’re not a guitar player originally. What’s your first instrument?
I started as a piano player, and I did a lot of music programs as a kid growing up. I started playing acoustic guitar and learning the songwriter version of guitar when I was around 12. My dad is a guitar player and he taught me how to play. I picked up electric guitar around seven years ago. Part of what was appealing about it was I didn’t have preconceived notions about how to play electric guitar. I never approached it from a chops or a technique angle.
You’ve toured and done work with Jeff Tweedy, Richard Thompson, and others. How did you land those gigs and how are they structured?
The Chicago music scene is a little village. I am lucky enough that I grew up a few blocks away from Jeff Tweedy and his family. I’ve known him for a long time. When I fell in love with Wilco when I was in my early teens, I knew that I knew him and that was really exciting. As we turned into adults, he’s been really supportive of my career and my brother’s career. His son, Spencer, is very close friends with my brother and a good friend of mine as well—but Spencer and my brother are closer in age, and they knew each other growing up—and when Jeff started this project with his son, he invited my brother to go on tour with him. He later invited me to sing some songs at their Chicago shows, and then that night, he pulled me aside before the show and said, “Do you want to go on tour for the next three weeks with us? You can jump on a bus tonight.” I literally ran home, packed a bag, and jumped on tour with Jeff and Spencer and my brother, and some other great musicians—so that was really fun.
The Richard Thompson thing happened through Jeff as well. Jeff was producing Richard Thompson, and I guess he decided he wanted blood harmonies. Blood harmonies are sibling harmonies, because there’s a special quality that comes from siblings singing together. He asked me and my brother to sing the backup vocals. My parents are huge Richard Thompson fans. I grew up listening to Richard Thompson and singing Richard Thompson songs—that’s what I sing with my dad—and it was pretty wild to get that call from Jeff, saying, “Do you and Liam want to come over and sing on this Richard Thompson record?” And Richard was there. We got to meet Sir Richard Thompson, and that was a pretty crazy experience for me. [The album is Thompson’s 2015 release, Still.]
When was that?
Maybe five or six years ago. It was the same thing with Chance [the Rapper]. Sometimes people make a big to-do about the fact that we sang with Chance, but Chance loves to bring in people from the Chicago music world—he came up around bands—all the people in his bands played, or were in music programs, or went to high school with my brother, or went to the same high school as me. He was around. He asked me and Macie to sing with him for a couple shows. We would pop in sometimes at the studio when he was making records and sing. It’s all very informal and pretty relaxed.
It sounds like it’s a pretty nepotistic scene—everyone knows each other and plays on each other's albums.
Nepotistic, incestuous, all those weird words. Everyone is around. It makes sense. Also, me and Macie are both professionals and know how to do things quickly. We can jump onto things without much rehearsal. I think that’s a big part of it, too.
How did Ohmme end up on Joyful Noise and what’s your deal like?
We were shopping the record around. We knew another artist, C.J. Boyd, who is on their label. We did a show with him and he said, “I really want to gun for you guys with my label. I think you’d be a really good fit.” It’s amazing how often having a foot in the door with a place will help you in the industry. A lot of people go off of recommendations, for better or worse. He sent our record along to Joyful Noise and they were really excited about it—and we’re excited about them. They are an arthouse label that also does a lot of rock bands, but weirdo art rock bands, and that’s how we perceive ourselves. We came from this more avant-garde background, and have made the slow march toward pop indie rock. We felt that it would be a good fit for that combination of flavors for us. We didn’t get a big advance from them, they basically help cover the cost of making the record, promoting, pressing, and all that. We prefer to have the record start making money rather than put the record super in debt. It’s easier for us to see how the record is doing, rather than ask for a big loan in front of the record, and then begin paying that out over years and years. It’s just a different era of record making these days with indie labels.
What’s the advantage of being on a label as opposed to throwing your music up on Bandcamp, using services like CD Baby, and doing it yourself?
The benefit is that you have a whole team of people who are pulling for you. It lends a platform to you. I know a lot of artists who have now achieved a certain level of notoriety or status—they have an audience—and now, at this point, it probably makes sense for them to put out their own records. But for us, especially as a newer band that’s seeking out an audience and trying to establish ourselves, it can be really helpful to have a whole team of folks who care a lot about music, know where to find audiences, and help raise the platform. I go back and forth—sometimes I get furious when I think about how much good music has been released, just self-released, because for whatever reason, they couldn’t find the right label. It weighs on you to have a record that you’re not putting out. I feel that need. But man, there is so much good music that has come out that’s under the radar. But I am grateful that Bandcamp is such a champion of independent artists. In this day-and-age—when it feels like there are few streaming services or people looking out for artists on the internet—having a small record label and Bandcamp at your back, it makes me feel that we’re not all out here on our own with no one giving a crap about us in the industry.
Do you feel a sense of community with the other artists on your label’s roster?
Yes. Actually, Thor Harris just emailed me and asked if I would sing. He sent me this weird song and said, “Put whatever on it.” So I did, and it was really fun. Joyful Noise threw a fun holiday party two years ago, where they brought in a bunch of artists and recorded this holiday record. We got to know a lot artists then. David Yow (the Jesus Lizard), Greg Saunier (Deerhoof), No Joy, and a bunch of folks were there. We’ve also toured with the Ophelias, who are our label mates. I don’t think there’s any secret that being in an indie touring band right now is both fun and exhilarating—and you’re living the best life—but it’s also grueling, grinding, and disheartening sometimes. It’s very both of those things. It’s nice to have the camaraderie of other people who are deep in it, because they are the only other people who understand the weird reality of your financial situation—your big joys and big heartaches—that camaraderie of, “Wow, it’s amazing that we get to do this with our life,” but also, “Wow, is there any future in this?”
Is your music available on vinyl, and if yes, does it sell?
Oh yeah. We’ve had some tours where we’ve done really well at the merch booth. It’s hard to to that, especially because we’re such a vocal-heavy band. It can be hard to run out to the merch booth after you’ve expended all this vocal energy, and general energy, on stage, and then suddenly, you’re in retail. You’re greeting people and hawking merch at them. But people love vinyl and I think there’s a growing culture. It’s starting to cross over into the mainstream. People pay for their streaming accounts and then any band they go see, they try to spend money on merch knowing that the streaming world has robbed so many artists of being able to make a living off their music any other way.
Do the bulk of your vinyl sales come from merch sales, or are they selling in stores as well?
They do well in stores. I don’t look at the numbers too closely, but I do know that my friend in Columbia, South Carolina, Woody, sells a ton of our records at his shop, Papa Jazz Records—shout out to them—but we definitely move the most off our website and at the merch booth.
Your music is streaming, too. I’ve heard surprising things, like if you’re getting lots of streams—as in over a million—you’re actually making money. How has it impacted you?
I don’t think we’re in the millions of streams, and so much of that has to do with getting on a playlist. You need to get on playlists if you’re an indie artist for your streams to be meaningful, and to get meaningful numbers back from that. For as many people I know who are music-heads and avidly read articles, download records, and buy those records, for every one of those there are probably 10 or 20 or 30 people who don’t care that much about music and will just listen to a playlist. The playlist can definitely introduce people, and help expose you to a new audience, and that’s the point—that’s the tradeoff—but it’s a weird cycle of feeling that you have to beg streaming services to give you a chance. The new “trying to get an A&R guy” or “get on a record label” is getting on a Spotify playlist. I appreciate what they do in terms of making music so accessible and helping elevate our music and bring it to new audiences, but it also feels weird to have that relationship with an organization that’s profiting so much off of artists and giving them pennies in return.
You did a Tiny Desk Concert. Is it a scam or is that really Bob Boilen’s desk?
It’s really his desk. We love Bob. Bob has been an incredible champion. Speaking of people who really help—actually move numbers for artists—after our Tiny Desk Concert came out, one of the Wachoski siblings bought our record. We were pretty pumped about that. That day when it premiered, we saw their order come in on PayPal, and funny side note, me and Macie went to the same high school as the Wachoski siblings. Not at the same time, but we were like, “Whitney Young love!” But it is Bob’s desk. He has created this brilliant thing, which I would say is maybe doing the most to help introduce bands to a new audience. We pretty much have someone at all of our concerts now who says, “I learned about you at Tiny Desk.” It’s rare that we have someone say, “You were on a Spotify playlist, so I came all the way to this concert for you.” But people definitely say they saw us on Tiny Desk.
Is what you see, is that it? Or do you do other takes?
I don’t know how Josh Rogosin, their audio engineer, does it, but his mic-ing technique is something to behold. Because it’s just like that. We didn’t do any extra takes.
Do they have specific guidelines?
Bob definitely does want it to be striped down. We were playing more on the quiet side for that. If we were a super-famous band already, then maybe we would have busted out some acoustic guitars and played something, but not enough people who are going to see that know what we actually sound like. We’ve been trying to fight against the perception that we’re a band that’s just two girls with acoustic guitars. You would not believe how many people—people who I am friends with—who said that they didn’t listen to OHMME for a while because they assumed that we were just a two chick folk duo.
Really?
Yeah, and I am like, “What the hell?” So we played electric guitars, had our drummer, and did the OHMME thing. I don’t know what stigma people have—not stigma, there’s nothing wrong with two girls with acoustic guitars, we play like that sometimes—it’s just something about two women that people assume it’s soft rock.
How did you get that gig?
I think it was through our publicist. We knew we were a little fresh—a little green to make it all the way to Tiny Desk Concert—but Bob really loved our record. He’s been a big champion of our music. I guess he decided, “I want to take this baby band and I want them on here,” which was really awesome of him. Obviously, he’s a champion of bands that are starting out—that whole Tiny Desk Contest—and we’re grateful we didn’t have to do the competition and that he brought us on.
What’s your role at Fox Hall Studio?
My family has a house in Chicago. It is a two-flat—there are two apartments—and the studio is in the basement. My partner, Dorian Gehring, is a recording engineer, and he’s the main engineer. He runs most of the sessions, especially since I am on the road all the time. I manage it. I oversee it and try to bring people in. We’re also like the Chicago band hotel. Bands stay here all the time. We have extra bed sheets and towels, and we really like doing that, especially since I stay at other people’s houses all the time on the road. That’s how we financially make it work. We barely ever stay in hotels—just once in a while when we need a little break or we really don’t know anyone in a city.
It’s a service you're able to pay back.
We love paying it back. But the studio is fully operational. Me and my partner live in one of the apartments, and my parents and my grandmother live in the other apartment upstairs. Right now, we’re one big happy quarantine family together. We have lines that come up from the studio to our apartment, because we have a baby grand piano up here. We record piano, and sometimes, if we want a roomier drum sound, we’ll bring a drum set up here, too. We have a control room and live room. We have lots of rehearsals, and other bands come in, and we’re always trying to bring in more folks to record.
What is the Postock Festival?
That’s a DIY festival that I started 13 years ago. It’s a very small festival/very big party that happens on a farm in Southern Wisconsin, which is owned by some very close family friends of mine. They’ve been really kind, and their farm is a big part of our community. A lot of our bands have gone up there to play in the barn. That’s where we recorded most of Fantasize Your Ghost, our upcoming record. We rebuilt our studio up there. Dorian helped us transport Fox Hall out to the farm. Chris Cohen came out from Los Angeles, and we recorded most of the basic tracks out there, and then brought it back and finished it up at Fox Hall. But Postock is like a party for Chicago bands. Everyone gets out there and camps out. We’ve had really amazing people over the years. Jamila Woods played one of our early shows out there. Back in the day, Vic Mensa was out there. Nnamdi Ogbonnaya, tons of great people. It’s almost like a retreat. There’s not a lot of money in it, and it’s pretty word of mouth, but it is the most amazing weekend of the year. I know that it restores a lot of people’s spirits. I am hoping that this year it can go on, because I think people really need it.
With so much going on, how do you juggle your time and make it work?
It was tricky to finish our last record, because we were so busy touring. As you know, touring is the only way bands make money. We felt the pressure to finish this record, because we really wanted to make it, but I can’t tell you how much it was wedged in between things. We drove from playing a show with Jeff Tweedy in Chicago—we had our equipment loaded up in the van—drove to the farm, recorded for five days, and then I had to jump in one of the cars and drive to one of my best friends rehearsal dinner on our last day of recording. It was very much wedged into our schedule, which of course, now, wow, we have a lot of time. But we’re already working on other projects, too.
It was a challenge to find the time to record the album because we’ve been on the road so much. Being on the road has been great, and we feel like we’ve been putting the work in and we’re starting to see the results of that. Sometimes being on the road is so much fun, and sometimes it can be really draining. We had disastrous van issues last year with the tour van we own. We ended up having to sink almost $10,000 into it, which was devastating to our budget last year. But you keep going.
Your video for “3243” is one of my favorite videos of the year so far.
That was so much fun to film. It was also a ton of work. We worked from seven in the morning until the night, but that team is awesome.
That time lapse stuff must have taken forever.
We were in the middle of really busy intersections in Mexico City, but it went well. People didn’t want to walk in front of the camera, but we said, “No, do it.” We wanted people crossing in front of us. It was pretty funny.